Ok, once upon a time there was a Preacher. On Wednesday evenings about twenty or so members of the church, including the Preacher met for prayer, study and discussion. They studied Ephesians and then started on John's Gospel getting as far as chapter 7. Taking as long as necessary, the group intended to get through to the end. In the meantime, the Preacher every Sunday makes an altar call for those who "choose" to "accept" Jesus as savoir. I wonder if the fellow is paying attention at all to what has been studied on Wednesday nights?
Here's a unrelated curiosity, I took this silly quiz titled "What denomination are you?". I answered the questions as honestly as I could. Apparently, I'm a Lutheran, the curious thing is, I've never been in a Lutheran church in my life and apart from knowing who Martin Luther was, I know nothing of their doctrine.Weird.

Lutherans are notoriously anti-Zionist, not rabid patriots, and reject Decision Theology. We happen to overlap enough for it to show up on a shallow quiz like that. You'd need to see how they evaluate the choices on the quiz to know for sure.

The preacher in question is locked into a ritual practice for the altar call. He'd probably vociferously deny such a thing, but the huge social pressure between clergymen and other church leaders is enough to make them feel compelled to offer such a traditional evangelical altar call regardless of what the Scripture actually says.

(04-25-2018, 08:39 PM)Ed Hurst Wrote: Lutherans are notoriously anti-Zionist, not rabid patriots, and reject Decision Theology. We happen to overlap enough for it to show up on a shallow quiz like that. You'd need to see how they evaluate the choices on the quiz to know for sure.

The preacher in question is locked into a ritual practice for the altar call. He'd probably vociferously deny such a thing, but the huge social pressure between clergymen and other church leaders is enough to make them feel compelled to offer such a traditional evangelical altar call regardless of what the Scripture actually says.

There were ten questions, multiple choice, I answered what was closest. I regarded it as an amusing exercise rather than anything serious. When it comes to western theology, I tend towards reformed but, when it comes down to it what I have is what we classify as emphatically non-western.
As to my new preacher, you nailed it. As far as his other functions as pastor he's doing ok.  He has very big shoes to fill. Personally I like the guy but, he is a product of Western religious education and training. When the same stuff was applied to me I had to reject it and that was a long and painful process. We are close in age and have kids in the same school system. I have two in high school, he has one in middle school, one in HS and one grown, married with a little 'un. So I could befriend him enough to suggest he open the altar as a place of prayer and healing and fill it or keep it empty by continuing as he is. We shall see. Our church was unique, no one was pressured to fit into any kind of orthodoxy and people were free to follow Jesus Christ according to their own convictions. If it becomes another branch office of AmeriJesusCorp, I will leave. I subjected myself to that crap once before and swore I would never do it again.

(04-25-2018, 11:02 PM)IainH Wrote:

(04-25-2018, 08:39 PM)Ed Hurst Wrote: Lutherans are notoriously anti-Zionist, not rabid patriots, and reject Decision Theology. We happen to overlap enough for it to show up on a shallow quiz like that. You'd need to see how they evaluate the choices on the quiz to know for sure.

The preacher in question is locked into a ritual practice for the altar call. He'd probably vociferously deny such a thing, but the huge social pressure between clergymen and other church leaders is enough to make them feel compelled to offer such a traditional evangelical altar call regardless of what the Scripture actually says.

There were ten questions, multiple choice, I answered what was closest. I regarded it as an amusing exercise rather than anything serious. When it comes to western theology, I tend towards reformed but, when it comes down to it what I have is what we classify as emphatically non-western.

So, given how non-rigorous the questioning was, it was pretty accurate then?

I've known a few Christians who really got into the denomination game. Not in the sense of church hopping, but being a collector, even curator, of denominations, and they would draw lots of barriers between themselves and people of other denominations. Barriers that really they only created in their heads. It's a weird way to try to gain a form of control of something really slippery.

(04-26-2018, 04:50 AM)jaybreak Wrote:

(04-25-2018, 11:02 PM)IainH Wrote:

(04-25-2018, 08:39 PM)Ed Hurst Wrote: Lutherans are notoriously anti-Zionist, not rabid patriots, and reject Decision Theology. We happen to overlap enough for it to show up on a shallow quiz like that. You'd need to see how they evaluate the choices on the quiz to know for sure.

The preacher in question is locked into a ritual practice for the altar call. He'd probably vociferously deny such a thing, but the huge social pressure between clergymen and other church leaders is enough to make them feel compelled to offer such a traditional evangelical altar call regardless of what the Scripture actually says.

There were ten questions, multiple choice, I answered what was closest. I regarded it as an amusing exercise rather than anything serious. When it comes to western theology, I tend towards reformed but, when it comes down to it what I have is what we classify as emphatically non-western.

So, given how non-rigorous the questioning was, it was pretty accurate then?

I've known a few Christians who really got into the denomination game. Not in the sense of church hopping, but being a collector, even curator, of denominations, and they would draw lots of barriers between themselves and people of other denominations. Barriers that really they only created in their heads. It's a weird way to try to gain a form of control of something really slipper

Sort of but to get closer to the truth will require another one of my novellas, sorry dude but here goes. I wasn't raised in church so, beginning in July 1987 when God started dragging me out of the mire. I had no idea that "christians" were so divided . The first church I was invited to was an independent Charismatic group. I quite enjoyed their lively worship but, two things made me leave: first their obsession with "thebaptismoftheholyghostwiththeinitialevidenceofspeakingintongues" said so fast it was like one word and their insistence that everyone look, act and talk that same. At the time I was living in SoCal. After I returned to NC, I went back to my sex,drugs and rock n roll lifestyle. That became mainly booze and dope, I hit bottom and admitted  myself o a Christian rehab run by Baptists, I was there for four months. I attended a few different Baptist Churches, through people I knew, also my Grandparents Wesleyan Church. I went to an Easter musical at one of the largest churches in the county, Lenoir Community Church (LCC) while I was in rehab and decided to give them a whirl. Understand, when I entered rehab I had absolutely nothing and no one, my outrageous boorishness while drinking had alienated everyone but my cousin Chuck, whose wife drove me to rehab. I had to start over from scratch. I found a job, a room to rent and started saving for a car. The folks at LLC were very welcoming and kind whereas other places not so much, like I had just stood in a dog turd.The church was non-denominational, the pastors background was Advent Christian Conference, I was studying all kinds of different denominational doctrines. How can I forget! I met wife there. I was not looking for a relationship because I had only been involved with "hoes"  mostly damaged goods with serious issues. Michelle  on the other hand was a nice girl from a good family, modest, moral and unblemished by man. Believing we could do no better we had a two preacher wedding June 5th 1993, almost twenty five years and two kids later we still fight everyday because we both have to have the last word. That was a lot but, necessary context for the fact I do not hold with any set of denominational doctrines of men. As far as reformed theology goes I believe in scripture alone and in Eph2:8-9 that salvation is a gift of God and not a decision. Baptist, full immersion, ACC, in this universe "the dead know not anything " Ecclesiastes 9:5. The Chrarismatics, I believe the gifts of the spirit can still work but, is choked by western ignorance of how they work, they exchange the Glory of God for the glory of men.
Amen.

I don't mind novellas, since some of them are among my favorite books.

Here's the thing, Iain, there's nothing wrong with conscious divisions by themselves. It's how we organize things as a result of the fall, since not every one is given the same marching orders from God. Differing marching orders don't indicate malice but how we deal with the situatin we're left with after Eden. Unity sounds nice, but there's going to be a lot of unwanted, unforeseen baggage that comes along essentially forcing people to work together (also a result of the fall).

This doesn't' take into consideration how "well" the denomination is following their marching orders. Obviously, as you point out, anything based on Western philosophical assumptions aren't necessarily in the best place, but again...they can make the best with what they have. I can't say, case to case, unless I'm personally involved with the church.