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Music in Ancient Israel - jaybreak - 04-12-2018 This is more of a history lesson that anything else, but it serves the Radix Fidem mission to have some knowledge of these things. While poking around as light research for a book idea, I came across this essay: "Women in Ancient Israel and the Hebrew Bible" (I attached the pdf of the essay to this post, for safekeeping). Below is an excerpt regarding the role of women in terms of musicianship. I thought the remark about the singers being specially trained was interesting. To me, it means they took the task seriously, and at the time we can assume singing--along with other "available" arts like sculpting or dancing--were some of the highest forms of expression of devotion. Besides making and eating food, which was a monumental task in itself given their technology and environment, there was precious else to distract themselves with. It makes some sense that whatever they chose to do with their free time would have huge impact. But, this is coming from a Western brain (my own): note that I use "chose" and "free time," which may not have the meaning it does given how different Ancient Near East and 21st century cultures are. For the entire essay, as a broad rule, take it with a grain of salt. Undoubtedly, the author is writing from a Western, feminist academic tradition, and it shows in some of the sly editorials made throughout. There's some good tidbits there, if you can ignore the arrogant presumption that Ancient Hebrew women wanted or needed the same things, or held the same values, as the author does. Quote:Women Religious Functionaries: Musicians RE: Music in Ancient Israel - Ed Hurst - 04-13-2018 Good find, Jay. A couple of things come to mind. There was precious little social mixing between sexes in the Ancient Hebrew world. Men and women generally operated in parallel societies, even in small villages where everyone was related. Everyone got more done that way. It encouraged individuals to develop multiple talents, as well, because the experts were typically one's one gender. There were plenty of things that were available to both, but the segregation was not just by law; it reflects the tendencies we recognize from today's red-pill lore. Most of the Hebrew people simply preferred it that way. The pace of life was a lot slower in the first place. There were days when the task at hand required hard work all day, but that came in pretty short bursts, typically at the various types of harvest and things like sheep-shearing. A week or two of exhausting labor, and then a day or two to celebrate as life slides back into a slower pace. Most of the year there was plenty of time for socializing and sharpening talents and skills that had more of a religious and social value. A given village had groups of men and women who associated around certain crafts, such as the above mentioned dirges and victory celebrations. A few folks seemed capable of doing almost everything and anything, just as today, while most people picked out things that gave their lives meaning, a place in society. I dare say their idea of musical "talent" would not likely coincide with ours all that much. Most of what we think of today as "Jewish music" is actually eastern European folk music, which also bears little resemblance to the ancient styles. Scholars admit they don't really know what ANE music sounded like; it's mostly guesswork. Chances are good typical Arabic music styles come closer, but there's no way to estimate how far things have drifted in 2000+ years. RE: Music in Ancient Israel - jaybreak - 04-14-2018 (04-13-2018, 05:15 AM)Ed Hurst Wrote: Good find, Jay. A couple of things come to mind. There was precious little social mixing between sexes in the Ancient Hebrew world. Men and women generally operated in parallel societies, even in small villages where everyone was related. Everyone got more done that way. It encouraged individuals to develop multiple talents, as well, because the experts were typically one's one gender. There were plenty of things that were available to both, but the segregation was not just by law; it reflects the tendencies we recognize from today's red-pill lore. Most of the Hebrew people simply preferred it that way. This is good info. They were "organized" (loosely used term, because I don't think it was organized as much as it was that it fell into place) that way partly, I think, because that was the best way to survive, and because they didn't have the same cultural values we do. This "two team" running in conjunction would never fly today because it would be seen as a real antagonism, like a competition. People back then would think that's ridiculous. RE: Music in Ancient Israel - forrealone - 04-14-2018 It is interesting to notice these days, at gatherings of families or adults, the natural tendency of women, men and chlidren to gather with their own. Women love to share, talk and keep an eye on the little ones. Men gather to share experiences and such. Children gather to play. Not meaning to sound old fashioned or close-minded, but unless there is a sexual or some career-oriented purpose, men and women don't usually gather at such activities after all the greetings have been said. It would seem that behavior shows what is natural (as in how God made things to be). With men in ancient times probably more involved in the protection and defense of the family/tribe or in the expansion /conquest of the land, women would be more apt to develop the music based rituals for a variety of reasons. Since I dont believe women were involved in the actual "fighting" activities, it would only make sense that they would contribute to or more likely be the driving force behind those celebratory (be it a conquest, a birth, a death, etc) rituals. We all should have a "place" in society where we feel comfortable and "fit". Unfortunately, this modern day society is so twisted and mangled that finding that "place" is nigh impossible because nothing in this society is natural. RE: Music in Ancient Israel - IainH - 04-15-2018 It made things a whole lot less awkward when it was time to marry your cousin. RE: Music in Ancient Israel - jaybreak - 04-21-2018 Quote: Not meaning to sound old fashioned or close-minded, but unless there is a sexual or some career-oriented purpose, men and women don't usually gather at such activities after all the greetings have been said. There's nothing wrong with being closed-minded (since everyone is, about something), and nothing wrong with being old-fashioned, though I guess it depends on what kind of "old" it is. : But I do agree with you about the separation, and I have noticed that at family gatherings, where there are enough warm bodies to make the data noticeable. It's fairly natural to separate, in that we rarely need to be forced into the separation. Only a fool would say it's a bad thing (of course, there's plenty of fools to go around). |