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The Challenge - IainH - 02-03-2018
For want of a better word, I do hereby entitle this thread; The Challenge.
What is The Challenge?
Simply put it's this, how do we who are not particularly gifted as communicators get across to people who like ourselves blundered around in the opaque soup of religiosity trying to find a path that fit our stubborn commitment to "get this right".
Personally, it was by accident. I was looking for something and stumbled upon Ed's blog and was intrigued, excited and frightened that someone else was on my wavelength just, fortunately for me, much farther along. The FREE books and posts, literally saved me decades that, quite frankly, I ain't got.
I was born into, raised in and taught by parents, school teachers, pastors and on and on that Western Civilization, from now on and forever more simply WC, IS the ultimate stage of human development. Insurmountable and eternal. Everyone I know believes this.
How do I break down this festering edifice so that ONE person can glimpse the light.
The way I see it; I have three tools.
1. Prayer
2. God's Holy Word
3. My own conviction.
Planting little seeds.
RE: The Challenge - Ed Hurst - 02-03-2018
I've gone round and round with this in my own mind. I want the whole world to know, but so far, very few are receptive. It's not like the packaged "gospel" sold in media and in churches everywhere; it really does require a serious sense of conviction before people will hear it. I suppose that does save us the heartache of dealing with a large membership of spiritually stillborn folks.
Around here where I live, I generally don't start off saying much about WC and heart-led. That waits for them to move closer to what they can see of my conduct and visible faith. I use familiar terms of mainstream religion when it seems to help, but I do talk about "God's Law" where it fits. When you wrap talk of "law" in compassion and love, it seems to capture some ears, if only just for a few moments. If people ask, I'm likely to use the term "Christian Mysticism." But I believe it's far more important that you approach the thing from within your own sense of living in faith. I doubt any two of us would have the same way of meeting the challenge. I believe you are on the right track, Iain.
RE: The Challenge - jaybreak - 02-03-2018
We shouldn't "cast our pearls before swine," but we're not sure who is swine and who isn't until there's some empathetic connection, which is why I dislike "drive-by evangelism" that some people practice. Those evangelist types are actually somewhat uncommon, I think, but we notice them because they are uncontrollable extroverts and they share way too much with complete strangers, too early, and believe that this sharing is legitimate evangelism in an absolute sense. Others might play along with it because they think that's one of the only paths for doing "public relations" for God, i.e., "if you're not talking to your neighbors about Jesus you're not doing God's work."
I don't want to turn this comment into an introvert vs extrovert thing, but that's where it seems WC is at, especially America. We associate loud gregariousness with righteousness, because that's probably how we imagine Paul was in the Greek square as he helped add thousands to the church daily. Tie that into the compulsory numbers game of needing to cull lots of warm butts into church seats, and you can see why being somewhat tactful about how we communicate (aka, not obnoxious, coming from an introvert's perspective) isn't always well received.
RE: The Challenge - IainH - 02-03-2018
Thanks guys, I knew you would reply because, you HAVE too!
I shall take you'uns in order.
Ed, you are correct if it is spilled out like a knocked over glass of milk people jump back instinctively to prevent from getting splashed. True
So, like Jesus and the Syro-Phoencian lady; my suggestion is crumbs perhaps even a single one at a time.
Jay, you are likewise correct; a mess of pearls is likely as not to be mistaken as shiny rocks and stomped into the mud. In which case; I suggest a single pearl which is more likely to be marveled over than stomped into the mud.
CONCLUSION: in "meat space" evangelism of the heart led way, by necessity is a long term one on one experiment. ALSO!!!!! PAY ATTENTION HERE PLEASE, MY BROYHERS AND SISTERS! we who find ourselves hopelessly alone swimming struggling to swim against the current of "meat space" Christianity. HOPE! has arrived and it's this forum! This is our sounding board; a place to bat around ideas, share successes and failures and it's safe and wide open! YOU dear reader, can be as open or anonymous as you like with your identity. No one will ridicule or judge you.
CONCLUSION Part Two. In the real world, Jay is right, if you sling out all your goodies at once you are likely to scare people off. This is what happened to me and I only got a few few pearls out before the person took off running, well actually their eyes glazed over and I lost them.
Next time, I'll share my mistakes.
RE: The Challenge - jaybreak - 02-04-2018
Just so I'm making myself clear: I don't think the evangelism/mission concept is bad in itself. Extroverts have their place in God's plan, but extroverts exert more social power than introverts do, so the great majority of people observing it all would conclude whatever the extroverts propose is the only "anointed" way to do religion. There's lots of charity money to be made with missionary work, so it ends up being another typical corporatist industry sector. Missionary work is sold as dramatic and sexy, almost like starring in your own movie. We should be very wary of such packaging.
RE: The Challenge - Ed Hurst - 02-05-2018
Amen to that, Jay. It took awhile for me to loosen the claws of that false vision from my soul.
RE: The Challenge - forrealone - 02-05-2018
I spend most of my time at home. I am retired, getting closer to 70 and have a husband who has more health challenges than seems fair. But, i do get out and am blessed with more opportunities than i realize or notice to just "be" me. And, for whatever reason He has, being me means conversations that come out of nowhere and end with a sharing experience for me and usually some stranger. The words that come out of my mouth are NOT filtered through my brain. They just come out as though directed specifically to that person. If i had to plan these moments or think about what to say or when, they would never happen.
This is how it works for me. I can't plan anything other than doctor appointments or picking up my grandkids on time because each day could bring a serious challenge that can make plans scatter apart.
God presents/uses each of us as He chooses. He will find a spot for you and you will know it when He does, but the "how" of knowing it is not something i can explain. Hang in there, Iain, He is already working in you. I can see it!
RE: The Challenge - IainH - 02-05-2018
Two against one, round two. I like those odds. In the blue corner the twin towers of Radix Fidem intellect Ed and Jay and in the red corner the third rate Will Rogers; Mr Iain!
In order; Jay, your take on American "Church Inc" evangelism/missions is true. Also I'm kinda bipolar so, I'm ex' or introvert depending on the day.
Ed, you're a gruff old silverback.
Now, levity aside, I need to bring this discussion back on it's intended track with some clarification. My main thrust is based on a situation in which I'm speaking one on one with an individual that I already know whom, I feel, may be open minded enough to consider what we espouse here at RF.
"Church, Inc's" rational and psychological "personal evangelism" techniques, exemplified by the saccharine Kirk Cameron, cannot and should never be used by RF.
I meet on Wednesday nights with around twenty of a Sunday morning crowd of under 100 souls, for prayer and group bible study and discussion. I've known these intrepid Bibleers for 18 years. It has been made manifest to me that, for now, this is my mission field.
I guess I'm trying to find a way to share that doesn't scare.
RE: The Challenge - Ed Hurst - 02-06-2018
Then they will know you by your peace, Iain. I would focus on a message of repentance; they aren't likely to balk at that. We facing a John the Baptist moment in American history.
RE: The Challenge - jaybreak - 02-09-2018
(02-05-2018, 10:44 AM)forrealone Wrote: I spend most of my time at home. I am retired, getting closer to 70 and have a husband who has more health challenges than seems fair. But, i do get out and am blessed with more opportunities than i realize or notice to just "be" me. And, for whatever reason He has, being me means conversations that come out of nowhere and end with a sharing experience for me and usually some stranger. The words that come out of my mouth are NOT filtered through my brain. They just come out as though directed specifically to that person. If i had to plan these moments or think about what to say or when, they would never happen.
This is how it works for me. I can't plan anything other than doctor appointments or picking up my grandkids on time because each day could bring a serious challenge that can make plans scatter apart.
God presents/uses each of us as He chooses. He will find a spot for you and you will know it when He does, but the "how" of knowing it is not something i can explain. Hang in there, Iain, He is already working in you. I can see it!
I, for one, think it's great that you are being used like that. That might happen to me if I were consciously open to it; my default mode in public is the total opposite.
Don't take my comments on extroversion as an attack on anything. It's more a commentary on western cultural attitudes than extroverts themselves. I'm definitely happy you're on board at RF. Being an online entity primarily, we need people like you more than not.